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Forum:Improving NFW
Preliminary discussions Just like what we're doing at Bleach Fan Fiction, let's discuss what should be done in order to improve this wiki. To start, this wiki is plagued with poor quality works due to its popularity with younger and less experienced writers. What would the rest of you suggest in order to minimalize this shortcoming? --[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 17:55, October 28, 2010 (UTC) :I think that a few well written articles should be used as a model for the new users to read and see how to properly format their own articles. In this way they can start off on a good foot instead of the usual bad one.--[[User:Shiratori Cullen|''' 楽しい']] (talk to Fenix!) 18:10, October 28, 2010 (UTC) :I agree with Fenix 100%! Some articles like Ryu Uchiha or Reiko Himegami should be used to show good, detailed, and revised articles. '무극' (talk to Joker!) 20:24, October 28, 2010 (UTC) :: I can agree, but I offer a step one further, one similar to what we suggested on BFF; a Featured Article. This would demonstrate to all users what high quality articles look like. Unlike on BFF, NF has managed to successfully keep the FA process going for long periods of time, so it wouldn't take too long to get that up and running. I suggested it once, but I think it needs to be discussed in detail here; an abolishing of the godmodding policy should also improve the writing on this site. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 23:30, October 28, 2010 (UTC) :::I feel that the NF FAs really did not show much of a quality standard: I have absolutely no idea how the FAs on this wiki were selected. However, it was due to the dedication to the wiki that allowed the FAs to be constantly updated. --[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 02:54, October 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::There have been a lot of different systems, I believe. I think that we could get better FAs, and update frequently, if we try. I suggest we use a vote between admins (simply because admins are more likely to be able to discern what constitutes an exemplary article).--'User:Thepantheon 03:07, October 29, 2010 (UTC)' :::: I feel that is fair enough. Admins should know what to expect as far as featured articles go. Votes are how it was done in the past on Naruto Fanon Wiki:Featured Article. We would need to update the qualifications, but I think it should work well enough. This wiki certainly has dedicated users, and with enough help, I'm sure that NF won't go down the drains again. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 03:26, October 29, 2010 (UTC) :::: I think that requirements should include that the article have good spelling/grammar, and a proper infobox. In my opinion, proper formatting and grammar/spelling is something that this wiki needs that could be improved a lot simply by showing a good example, so we should take advantage of that with the FAs. --'User:Thepantheon 03:46, October 29, 2010 (UTC)' :Content is just as important as visual aesthetics, though I would say that it be more of an unwritten rule, or else members would just be sucking up to the people in charge instead of focusing on writing something fun to read. --[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 15:57, October 31, 2010 (UTC) Bureaucrat Limitation :::Panth brought this to my attention; a few of the admins here (namely Kurosaki and ANBU) are inactive, and seem that they won't be returning. As such, they should be stripped of their B'crat status (Ask Uberfuzzy about doing it), but keep their admin rights. Now, here's the idea me and Panth discussed. How 'bout we have two B'crats (Kind of like Head Admin, but at the same time, not), while the others are just normal Admins. We have six B'crats who are active on NF right now, and that isn't really necessary. So, I think we should put it to a vote on which two Admins remain or become B'crats. My vote is Lavi (As he's the creator of NF) and Ten (As he is the driving force of this "rebirth" as I like to call it). Anyone oppose? '무극' (talk to Joker!) 00:43, October 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::You have no opposition from me. I actually brought this up awhile ago but no one really liked it. We have a ridiculous amount of admins/bcrats on this site. Limiting bcrats to 2 is an excellent idea, since they are the ones that need to approve new bcrats. If we have too many of them, then we have issues with people promoting users to bcrat without a real reason and that can be a problem. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 01:21, October 30, 2010 (UTC) I disagree, somewhat. Considering we've had several ''hacking issues in the past, with my account, and even Kou's, it wouldn't be wise to limit the Bureaucrats. Should, let's say, Lavi's account go under seige, and Ten's absent, the hacker will have free reign and no admin would be able to stop him. Bureaucrats can demote Admins, but not other Bureaucrats. We should have two more as back-ups, or even one at least. Also, this is gonna sound very arrogant of me, but if I'm not mistaken, Ten was ready to give up on this place until I persuaded him with my own decision to rejoin the workforce here (I may be wrong, but I'm HIV positive on this). >_> So thanks Kou, for not mentioning me at all. That's nice to know my actions go unnoticed. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 01:32, October 30, 2010 (UTC) Sei, perhaps have a backup account with a different password that the bcrats can use in case of emergency? Also, the main resort in case of hacking would likely be calling in Wikia, no matter whether we had a bcrat or not. And I'd like to mention that as Kou isn't very active on BFF, especially with the "rebirth" here, he probably didn't notice your talking to Ten. I put my vote in for Lav and Ten. Sei, you'd be a third choice, but I think that just since Ten is doing a large amount of the renovation, as it were, it makes sense for him to have the spot. No offense to you. --'User:Thepantheon 01:39, October 30, 2010 (UTC)' : Sei's right. He did convince me to give this place a second chance. Something I jumped on. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 01:39, October 30, 2010 (UTC) ::Oh no, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I should be chosen in lieu of Ten and Lavi; especially with my upcoming Taekwondo importance and stuff, and luckily, I can still help on NF and BFF. By all means, I firmly believe that if two should be chosen, it should be those two. The thing is, I believe giving credit where credit is due. Like I said, I know it's arrogant. I'm not perfect, and I can be selfish sometimes. I don't appreciate nobody even mentioning any of the effort I put into some of the renovations we attempt. Anyways, I'm sorry for the selfishness of the statement; it's just who I am. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 01:52, October 30, 2010 (UTC) :Sorry, Sei. I haven't been very active on BFF since this week began, so I didn't know that you encouraged Ten to come back. Thank you. :D Now, as for a third "back-up", I'm split between Sei and Fenix. Yesh, Sei is a senior member and a very good one at that, but Fenix has been more active around NF. Well, that's my final thought on the matter. 무극 (talk to Joker!) 12:55, October 30, 2010 (UTC) So, it seems like there is a lot of support for limiting bureaucrats. I'm gonna put up a vote, since this topic has wound down. --'User:Thepantheon 22:29, October 30, 2010 (UTC)' Vote * Let's vote for the above discussion. If you support limiting bureaucrats, then vote support, and put your vote in either the "2" or "3" section, depending on how many you think they should be limited to. Votes in both of those sub-sections will be counted for support. If you oppose limiting bureaucrats altogether, then vote oppose. ** A separate section will be made to vote on who should fill the spots, if this limitation idea is passed. Do not vote for it here. Support Limit them to Two #--'User:Thepantheon 22:29, October 30, 2010 (UTC)' #---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 22:30, October 30, 2010 (UTC) # 무극 (talk to Joker!) 22:39, October 30, 2010 (UTC) Limit them to Three #--[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 23:50, October 30, 2010 (UTC) #--[[User:Shiratori Cullen|''' 楽しい']] (talk to Fenix!) 23:59, October 30, 2010 (UTC) # ---'Fah' Oppose Sharingan Issue Alright, I believe I should split the discussions from here now. I, honestly, don't care for the idea of multiple universes. That shouldn't be justification for millions of Uchiha, and Sharingan users, running around. NF is formally, and primarily, a '''fanon', meaning we need to adhere to canon. It was stated several times that Itachi and Madara killed off all of the Uchiha except for Sasuke. Now, I agree that there is holes in that; they could have been on missions, or weren't in the village, or were rogues at the time of the massacre. However, I don't believe that people should have millions of Sharingan running around here. Before, we limited each user to two Sharingan and/or Uchiha maximum, but that was a bust; some admins were manipulating the numbers for their own gain. Therefore, I set forth this proposal. We assign admins to categorize all current active Uchiha on this site, and delete all Uchiha and/or Sharingan-using pages that are no longer applicable. In the meantime, we close all Uchiha allowance until we finish this. From there, we can all vote on a concrete set of rules regarding this. I understand that not everybody here RP's, but we are first and foremost, an RP wikia. There needs to be some sort of rule. Now, my proposal will be different because it doesn't just apply to Uchiha, but all things that were stated in Naruto to be destroyed or rare. For example, Rinnegan was said to be very rare. We still aren't sure if there are two. Madara claims that Nagato's eye was his. For all we know, maybe that eye is Rokudou's eye. We don't know. So, in the meantime, I propose we ban all access to new Sharingans and Uchihas until all current ones are accounted for. From there, we (Administration) shall decide on a firm set of rules that will not be manipulated or changed. I hate to say it, but yes, we need an NF Constitution. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 17:46, October 30, 2010 (UTC) :I agree with you Sei, There needs to be a list of all Uchiha/Sharingan users here on NF and a constitution rather than the policies we currently have.--[[User:Shiratori Cullen|''' 楽しい']] (talk to Fenix!) 18:08, October 30, 2010 (UTC) :: I generally believe in following the canon, which would be a strict "no-Sharingan" policy. '''However', for users who need an Uchiha as part of their backstory, that lived and died before or during the massacre, that is fine. They should be able to create Uchiha as long as they're already dead (either pre or post Massacre) and cannot be used in a roleplay unless the roleplay takes place before the massacre. This is possible, for example, a majority of Lavi's stories take place before the massacre or before the canon events. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 18:41, October 30, 2010 (UTC) :::I agree that we should limit Uchiha based on canon precedent. However, I do agree with Ten that anything done before the massacre is fine. I say that, as Sei said, we lock down Uchiha/Sharingan allowance while we count up Sharingan/Uchiha, and set a limit. Also, I propose that we make all Uchiha/Sharingan users tag their articles in an appropriate category. As to Rinnegan, as it seems to be an eye that heavily influences events, it does make sense that some users would have one to play an important part in their story. However, I think that it should be definitely limited to one per user, and perhaps admin permission, or a simple policy of maybe no Rinnegan RP usage outside of the story in which it was created to play an important role in? I realize that last one might be a bit iffy, but the other two are very plausible, in my opinion, and I'm just putting stuff on the table. --'User:Thepantheon 18:48, October 30, 2010 (UTC)' :::: One last thing I want to point out, Sei. I realize that the idea of everyone having their own universe is a bit of a headache, but I think we all know what happens when you try to put everyone into a site wide continuality. Everyone should have the right to create their own fanons without having to worry about intruding on others or feeling like they can't express themselves without having to constantly rely on admin permissions and a bunch of regulations. Make a general list of rules and leave "admin consent" out of it. Number one, its too much work for the admins to do; their job is to maintain the site and make sure that things are properly categorized, grammar is correct, and problem users are blocked. Number two, its a pain in the butt for users to have to ask admins and then wait several days for a proper responce when they want to get their stories underway. I, in no way, support an "admin consent" system. If we vote to implement one, I say that all admins have to answer to the two bcrats that are in charge and have to ask them for permission. That way admins can't just galavand everywhere saying who can and can't create something while they create whatever they want. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 19:02, October 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::As soon as you mentioned that, Ten, I realized I'd completely forgotten that loophole. Yes, normal users would have to get permission from admins, and admins would have to get permission from a bcrat, and the bcrat would have to get permission from the other bcrat, I suppose, or else maybe two or three normal admins? We can't have admins giving themselves permission, of course. --'User:Thepantheon 19:07, October 30, 2010 (UTC)' ::::I agree with all the points made on this issue, especially the Uchiga/Sharingan order. Since what I wanted to say on this matter has already been said, I purpose a vote. 무극 (talk to Joker!) 22:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC) I disagree with the limiting Sharingan/Uchiha actually. Everyone is entitled to have their own universes if they want, so they would not be walking all over canon if each universe only had a small number of "massacre survivors." Sei, you are identifying the mass of Sharingans/Uchiha as one universe by stating that the sheer number of them are breaking canon while mentioning that they all can very well be in their own universes. A clear contradiction. Remember assuming good faith? Yup: that applies here too. In regards to applying to RP purposes, the regulator of the RP can just flat-out deny the usage of an Uchiha for story purposes. There's no need to be all nice and accepting of every character if you feel that the character will break your role-play's canon. If someone is writing ridiculous stuff, like a million Rinnegans or something, feel free to ignore that user's content, especially if he or she attempts to insert that kind of thing into your stories. --[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 23:46, October 30, 2010 (UTC) Vote * Let's vote for the above discussion. If you support temporarily suspending the Uchiha/Sharingan creation on the wiki in order to work out a policy, vote for support. If you oppose the temporary suspending of Uchiha/Sharingan creation, vote oppose. ** A separate section will be made to vote on admin consent matters. Do not vote for it here. Support #-----'User:Thepantheon 22:19, October 30, 2010 (UTC)' # 무극 (talk to Joker!) 22:20, Octo''ber 30, 2010 (UTC)'' #--[[User:Shiratori Cullen|''' 楽しい']] (talk to Fenix!) 23:59, October 30, 2010 (UTC) Oppose # --[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 23:46, October 30, 2010 (UTC) # ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 23:53, October 30, 2010 (UTC) # ---'Fah' --Fahuem 00:23, October 31, 2010 (UTC) Admin Consent The argument has been made that certain characters, clan members, kekkei genkai, etc require admin consent. Personally, I am '''strongly' against this. Admins do not have authority over a persons personal fanon/fanfiction. The question is then, what about having too many Rinnegan/Sharingan/Wood Release etc characters? Keep in mind that fanons do not have to take place in the current storyline. It is canon that the Uchiha were abundant before the massacre, therefore if a person's fanfiction takes place before the massacre, they can make as many Sharingan users as the want. Any other logic is absolutely bogus. You cannot restrict another's character creation if it adheres to canon; I don't care if there is 100, or 10 million Sharingan on this wiki, you cannot do it. Admins have the duty of watching grammar, deleting pages, using rollback, and blocking rule breakers. They do not need an extra job to do. Not to mention, what happens when an admin wants to create one of these? Do they approve themselves? Nope. If an "admin consent" program is approved (and I strongly suggest that it isn't), then we should limit the bcrats to 2 and force admins to answer to them. If one of the two bcrats wants to create one, they have to ask the other bcrat. This creates a checks-and-balances system that assures fairness. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 22:24, October 30, 2010 (UTC) :I agree 100% that we cannot ban material on the basis that it is overused. I, however, think that Rinnegan and Sharingan usage does grate against canon, in that the Rinnegan is said to be very rare and, as Sei said, may only be one set of eyes, though Rinnegan usage is debatable, but should at least be restricted to one per person, I believe, and Sharingan usage/Uchiha (after the massacre, of course) is almost definitely odd, as it is stated that the Uchiha were massacred. Therefore, I propose that we do as Sei said and limit the number of Uchiha per person, to a reasonable number given the massacre (I suggest two or maybe three). As you say, Ten, admins must get permission from bcrats, etc. --'User:Thepantheon 22:33, October 30, 2010 (UTC)' ::As long as everything is well balanced and there is no cheep unfairness going on I'm fine. I really want to keep the limitations, if any have to be placed, as loose as possible. Rinnegan is up in the air, so it should be able to be freely be used (albeit rarely) by anyone until its clarified by the canon. Sharingan (after the massacre) should be prohibited, while Sharingan (before the massacre) should be free game. Limitations should only be used in extreme cases. I'm still not so happy about them, but if the admins here vote for it I'll go along with it. Remember, we're trying to lessen the view that admins are the "elite". The less control they have over things that aren't their business, the better and more friendly they'll be viewed, which is what we want. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 22:42, October 30, 2010 (UTC) ::: Something was just brought to my attention that I think needs to be mentioned. We're so wrapped up in stopping the number of Sharingan and Rinnegan used that we've forgotten something. We often restrict fan creation dojutsu, etc more harshly. I have decided to take a strict "no-restrictions" stance on anything that isn't supported by canon. Rinnegan should be freely owned and so should Sharingan before the massacre. To quote another user, the reason we have so many Sharingan and Mangekyō Sharingan running around on this site is because we limit so many things by either entirely banning them or by limiting them (for example, in your old rules you allowed characters to have only one of anything) that users have to default to Sharingan/Rinnegan just to feel they have something powerful enough to contend with other users. If you eliminate all restrictions except in extreme emergency situations, you'll have a lot less Sharingan/Rinnegan and a lot more fan created dojutsu/kekkei genkai, which is what we want. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 23:08, October 30, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, I say that there should not be any restrictions on anything that is not plagiarism, crossover, or canon contradictory (unless I am forgetting something >>). --'User:Thepantheon 23:55, October 30, 2010 (UTC)' Vote *Lets vote for the above section. If you support admin consent, then vote support. If you oppose admins consent, then vote oppose. Support Oppose # ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 13:51, October 31, 2010 (UTC) # 무극 (talk to Joker!) 13:53, October 31, 2010 (UTC) #--[[User:Shiratori Cullen|''' 楽しい']] (talk to Fenix!) 13:56, October 31, 2010 (UTC) #--[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 15:48, October 31, 2010 (UTC) #--'User:Thepantheon 16:08, October 31, 2010 (UTC) Alternate Universes :Outside the perspective of Uchihas being more numerous before the massacre and the like, it's entirely possible for users to create "alternate universes" where they could cut out or include events that were not mentioned in canon. In this regard, a user can remove the Uchiha Massacre event entirely, bypassing the limit on Uchiha characters. This should be kept in mind. --[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 23:48, October 30, 2010 (UTC) ::Lav, I disagree with the allowance of destroying canon. In my opinion, that would cause too many issues, especially with a large number of our users (I include myself in this) being not well-suited to do this in a great way, and I believe it would be detrimental to the wiki. --'User:Thepantheon 23:55, October 30, 2010 (UTC)' ::I also disagree, as on this page, Talk:The Mibu Clan, this argument was about breaking canon law. If everyone has their own universe, we're not functioning and it causes a lack in control of the site, which is what NF needs. 무극 (talk to Joker!) 00:07, October 31, 2010 (UTC) ::I'll have to agree with Lavi on this one, he does have a point. --Fahuem 00:17, October 31, 2010 (UTC) :::There is a difference between breaking canon and altering canon. Altered canon can only occur if the author specifically explains the difference between his or her said subject and the canon established by the actual author (Kishimoto, in this case). Breaking canon is specifically contradicting it without explaining yourself. Also, it's not fan fiction, or fanon, if others are telling you what you can or cannot do in terms of content. In terms of the discussion on that talk page, I do agree that although Kurenai does not have a KG does not prevent the possibility of her clan having one: not everyone in the Uchiha clan had a Sharingan, for instance. --[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 00:37, October 31, 2010 (UTC) ::::Lav, I am sorry for saying this, but I just can't agree with this; I think it's a really bad idea for the site. I'm aware that my opinion isn't law, but my two cents is a solid no. --'User:Thepantheon 01:02, October 31, 2010 (UTC)' ::I'm totally fine with a disagreement, though I still stand with my opinion. What I am suggesting is not to destroy and disregard canon; an alternate universe only works as an alternate universe if the basic principles remain unchanged. Otherwise, it's a spin-off that has no place on this wiki, since this wiki is for everything Naruto fan fiction. --[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 01:44, October 31, 2010 (UTC) :Okay, I must say this; Wasn't the point of coming back to NF because you wanted it to function correctly and whatnot? Well, altering canon will just make it less functional. To me, all of the "run off" admins seem to be doing more harm than good. However, I do not speak for everyone, nor do I intend to. But, even Shirokei, a user that was at the bane of my existence agrees that the old rules were better than this. But whatever. I agree with Panth, my vote is no. 무극 (talk to Joker!) 12:43, October 31, 2010 (UTC) ::Im with Kou; It seems that you all who ran away from NF only ever come back when the New users swarms calmed down. Then you take the wikia away from the ACTIVE admins that stayed and weathered the N00b-storm. It's not constructive at all If your gonna run away. If you're gonna run away, stay gone. Then, you come back and just take over and change whatever the active admins did because it inconveniences you. We did what we had to to keep this wikia running while you ran off to either BFF or SWF or both and abandoned NF all together. Please correct me if im wrong.--[[User:Shiratori Cullen|''' 楽しい']] (talk to Fenix!) 12:49, October 31, 2010 (UTC) ::: Okay, Kou, you and Shiatori are on my final nerve. I'm ''not a confrontational person, but you may not talk about people who are trying to HELP you because you aren't getting your way. The only reason we're even suggesting these things, is because quite frankly, this site under ANYONE'S control thus far has continued to go further into the sewer and we've seen these ideas work, given time. I am extremely furious with you right now Kou. You act as if you are owed something. Run off admins or not, at least when we left the place, there was a Policy page in place and things were starting to become functional again. Then when we return, we found out you have totally ignored the policies, even as ADMINS, and in your own words, "due to the administrations boredom, we have decided to revise the rules last night." First of all, where do you get off changing the rules in the middle of the night without prior warning of the user base, or without holding a forum for other admins and inviting ALL of them. ::: And another thing, "run off admins"? Really? We're down to name calling now? How very childish. I took a break from ALL wikis before the summer because I'm sick of the drama that was produced. Then I returned to help. The point is, whether we were active on another wiki or another site, you never even messaged any of us once to ask for help, to ask where we went, or to talk about anything for that matter. If you think for a second that this is our fault, you're sadly mistaken. YOU were in charge for several months, and YOU are why we're even on this page. There would be no need to revise the rules at all if you had just followed the established policy from the beginning. Lastly, this section is wrongly named, the argument here is about alternate universes, as Lavi stated, NOT breaking the canon. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 14:05, October 31, 2010 (UTC) ::Ten, I only said "run off" because you mentioned it on the rules talk page. So, sorry if that was offensive. And on almost every issue on this forum, I have agreed with you, so you can't say I'm mad about not getting my way. The policy page did not work, as after you guys left, the policy wasn't even looked at, even when I tried telling users of it. "You act as if you're owed something" Really? What do I think I'm owed, because I honestly have no clue. Also, I did warn the user base about the change in rules and didn't hold a forum because no admin was around on NF besides me, Fenix, and Fahoo and I wasn't going to wait idly by to see if any admins cared enough to join in. Also, I never mentioned once that you leaving before the summer was running off. I respect that you were tired of drama and left. I'm talking about after Koga. And in actuality, I DID ask for help, but you completely ignored it. And in fact, I was only in charge since about October 15th, so it was not several months. Lastly, thank you for changing the section name, was confused about which to put. 무극 (talk to Joker!) 14:21, October 31, 2010 (UTC) :::Your welcome. I'm sorry if I seemed to blow up, I was indeed angry, because I came back here to help, not to take control and get my way. How can you help people if you just sit around and talk about it. I just took a strong stance and the drove it home. My issue is that I take interest in something like Naruto or bleach and then I can only focus on that one thing. Then when my interest changes, I go to the next. I'm actually trying to curb that by continuing to edit on the other wikis I'm on. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 14:28, October 31, 2010 (UTC) :And Ten if you knew the WHOLE truth about why we could do minimum to help the wikia you wouldnt be saying any of that. Like kou said we have only been active ADMINS since 10/15/10 because after the raid by Sai we were all left without admin powers as Uberfuzzy blocked the ability to restore them until recently. So saying we had several months to do anything is false we've only had a few weeks.--[[User:Shiratori Cullen|''' 楽しい']] (talk to Fenix!) 14:30, October 31, 2010 (UTC) Okay, I think we all need this. HAPPY HALLOWEEN!! :The primary reason why I haven't been contributing to NF for a long time is because I had no ideas for Naruto. I've been role-playing Naruto since November 2006 - that's almost four years. I was also never very happy with the massive number of administrative users since it left the majority of such users with very little to do. Therefore, I spent little time on NF since there was already several admins doing the work. I had never backed away from checking back when called upon. Did you forget that my messages brought Uberfuzzy's attention in the fact that he made a mistake when dealing with Sai? Also, I would never suggest something if I felt that it would be detrimental to the future of the wiki. --[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 15:54, October 31, 2010 (UTC) Ok, I'm growing tired of this arguing between the "run off admins" (not used derogatorily, just used to differentiate between the two) and the "stayed here admins". I propose that we remember that this is a topic for discussion of the rules, not of different admins' merit and issues. Let's just discuss the rules we're supposed to be discussing, and not insult each other. If anyone ''really feels strongly and thinks they have to voice an opinion about other admins, then you could make a forum about it (I highly discourage this, however) or bring it up, if it is relevant, when we open voting for bcrats (I will open that in a few hours as it seems like we're unanimously in for having limited bcrats, we just need a tiebreaker for the number of bcrats). Let's leave this behind for now, ok? Now, on to the topic at hand. I'm slightly confused as to what's being proposed, exactly. Yesterday Ten mentioned to me that he was against allowing users to alter/rewrite canon, so since he is supporting this, either his mind was changed or I am misunderstanding what exactly is being suggested. I don't want to get into any more of a debate about this only to discover I was under the wrong impression :P. --'User:Thepantheon 16:07, October 31, 2010 (UTC) Vote *Lets vote for the above section. If you support letting users have alternate universes, then vote '''support'. If you are against alternate universes, vote oppose. Support # ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 14:05, October 31, 2010 (UTC) #---'Fah' Talk #--[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 15:47, October 31, 2010 (UTC) Oppose # 무극 (talk to Joker!) 13:59, October 31, 2010 (UTC) #--[[User:Shiratori Cullen|''' 楽しい']] (talk to Fenix!) 14:00, October 31, 2010 (UTC) #--'User:Thepantheon 16:07, October 31, 2010 (UTC)